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Author Topic: The bocking market as it stands  (Read 4568 times)
Mr Frank
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« on: August 24, 2008, 06:32:15 AM »

Hey, all the weights are approximate.  It seems nobody has a good scale around here.  If you have an exact weight, PM me or post here and I'll put it in.  Also, if you have any info I don't or especially if I have it wrong, tell me!  Even tiny details are worth inclusion.

POWERISER
Brand-wide characteristics
Produced in S. Korea, assembled in the Philippines (Hitech & c., co). They are cheap, tough bocks.  They weigh 9.5-10 lbs/4.4kg each, just like most other cheap bocks.  The hooves seem to have recently gotten crappy in durability, are whitish tan in color, and do not scuff.  The springs run in large increments: 5070s (for people between 50 and 70kg), 7090s, and 90120s are the adult spring classes.  The springs are tolerable in quality and last a long time.  They also require breaking in and start off quite stiff, however the company appears to be making a transition to softer springs.  Little is known about the new springs.  Powerisers get loose at all joints, and this appears to be OK.  It's unsettling, but does not appear to result in long-term problems.  Their center of gravity is about where your heel rests.  The hoof lies directly under the ankle.
Baseline Powerisers: they run around 300 USD, UK price unknown to me.  They are tough cheap bocks, good for beginners.  Bindings consist of knee loops and standard plastic ratchets, which are known to be a bit unreliable, but they get the job done.   They are identified by the white hooves and red bindings, on a dull gray frame.  Picture here
Poweriser Advanced (AKA Poweriser 07 in USA or Poweriser 08 in UK): They run a little under 500 USD, usually around 200 pounds.  Said to be a bit tougher than the baseline model and have better bearings, the only obvious difference is in the bindings.  They have cuffs instead of the knee loops, so they are more comfortable and much more stable  They have no calf pad because the cuff makes it unnecessary, and the block that holds the cuffs is of a tougher design than bocks with knee loops, in order to hold the cuffs tighter.  The cuffs require a stronger hold because they are not supported by each other and are much easier to twist.  The proper way to adjust and tighten the cuffs goes as follows: First, loosen the screws in the block holding the cuffs.  Then put the bocks on.  There has been some confusion about exactly how cuffs are done up, so it will be explained here.  The cuff is put together in the following fashion: the two thin Velcro straps/sheets overlap in the back, forming the outer layer of the cuff, and the slightly cushy piece with Velcro on one side goes inside the straps/sheets.  There should be a buckle and a narrow strap with Velcro at the end, one on each side, in front.   With the cuffs assembled properly, it's time to strap in for fitting.  With the bars of the cuffs still loose, do up the foot bindings.  Then you can start messing with the cuffs.  The way to do the cuffs up is to run the thin strap across the front to the buckle, through the inner slot of the buckle, and back across the front through the outer slot of the buckle and pull tight.  The more tension in the strap, the tighter the buckle holds.  Stick the Velcro section of the strap anywhere on the cuff; the Velcro is just to keep it out of the way and does not hold any tension.  The cuffs should fit snugly on the leg, be centered over the footplate, and low enough not to stick into your thighs when you bend your knees.  The placement forwards or backwards, which can be changed by altering how much the outer Velcro parts overlap, affects the position of the hoof under your foot.  Having them hold your leg more forward will put the hoof more forward, and placing your legs far back will put the hooves under your heels.  The best forward/backward placement is unknown and up for debate.  Once the cuffs are in a place you like, make sure that they are centered over the footplate, make sure that every bar is the same height (it's easiest to measure how far they stick out the bottom of the block), and tighten the bolts to hold them in place.  Your cuffs are customized for your legs.  The  Poweriser Advanced also has snowboard bindings on the foot, which hold better, look better, and are more comfortable than standard plastic bindings.  PR Advanced picture

7LEAGUEBOOTS/ 7MEILENSTEIFEL
Brand-wide characteristics
Designed in Austria, produced in Asia (FutureTech). 7leagueboots are the most expensive "cheap" brand, but they are also the highest quality.  They are known to be the quietest bocks on the market and have the longest-lasting hooves around.  Said hooves are black and thicker than the other brands.  It is also possible to get non-scuffing versions of the hooves.  The hooves are also set farther forward than the other brands, supposedly making jumping easier.  Th difference is small, but whether it is a benefit or a hindrance has yet to be ascertained.  The rather crappy standard bindings for 7leagues can be upgraded to snowboard bindings and the moral equivalent of Pinhead straps for a little extra.  Their bearings are designed to be service-free, and the special coating they use can be ruined by most greases.  The spring classes are identical to Poweriser.  They are softer, yet deliver the same height.  They are extra soft at the top of the compression and extra stiff at the bottom (good for running without sacrificing total power), and all around more energy efficient, bouncing you up more for the energy you put in.  A 7league spring is about as hard to bottom out as the next level down of Poweriser spring.  Finally, all 7leagueboots can be identified by their ostentatious bright yellow spring covers, which are tough enough to make taping unnecessary.
Raptor and T-Rex models: They run around 240 pounds, no USA price available because nobody sells them here yet. These differ only in spring strength.  The Raptor is 50-70kg, and the T-Rex is 70-90kg.  They weigh the same as Powerisers, 9.5-10 lbs or 4.4kg.  They are all-around pretty high quality, little else to be said not listed above.  Picture here
S-Rex types R and X They run around 250 pounds, no USA price yet.  These models also only differ in spring strength.  The R-Rexes are for 90-110kg and are optimized for running.  They are still powerful springs to bounce on.  The X-Rexes are made for bouncing high.  They are rated for 90-120kg.  The two models share a somewhat beefier frame and larger knee loops.  They are slightly heavier than your average bocks, at 10.5 lbs or 4.7kg.  There has been a lot of complaint about the large knee loops, as the bocks are mostly used by lighter people looking for more height.  The springs are very large and require a little drilling to fit onto other frames.  Interestingly enough, despite all the differences and the hype over their introduction, they do not supply any more height than any other spring of equivalent weight rating.  Picture here

FLYING LOCUST (Projump, Flyjumper, Powerizer, Powerstrider, Jollyjumper, Air-Trekker, and a few other names)
Brand-wide characteristics
Produced in China. The numerous names are given by the different vendors.  They all come from the same factory owned by a company called Flying Locust.  Flying Locust has gained a bad reputation for two big reasons: first, it's made in China, and second, FL stilts have kinda sucked in the past.  They have had batches of fragile hooves, fragile springs, and fast-wearing hooves.  Even though all of those issues  have been improved upon, the bad reputation still hangs over them and they receive a lot of undue criticism from people who are poorly informed.  The fact that they are made in China does not help throw off the stigma.  These days, Flying locust stilts are respectable.  Here's a chart showing Pro-Jump's experience with the various permutations of FL stilts they have sold:Chart here.  There are more permutations, but full documentation is very hard to find.  Other brands have made similar changes, but FL stilts have changed the most.  The current hooves are innovative in that it is possible to replace just the rubber part of the hoof rather than the whole metal part, saving money and aluminum, but the hoof rubber is relatively short-lived.  The springs are the only black springs currently on the market.  They are claimed to be carbon fiber, but in reality they are made from a black kind of glass that resembles CF.  These so-called carbon fiber springs, although they are stiffer and higher-quality than their predecessors, are still a little on the soft side and it is recommended that beginners buy springs 10-20kg higher than their actual weight, depending on athletic tendencies.  Flying Locust springs come in 10kg increments from 50-60kg to 110-120kg.  The quality of the springs is on par with Poweriser, perhaps better, however they do break prematurely more often than other brands.  Such breakage is almost always covered in the warranty.  Most FL stilts have knee loops, but cuffs are available in some countries, and will be coming to the UK and USA in due time.  It is currently possible to pre-order them at some FL dealers.  FL stilts are recognizable by their black springs and black hooves, but their bindings come in a variety of colors, usually dependent on the vendor.
Baseline FL stilts: These run around 300 USD, sometimes a bit more, and in the UK they are around 135 pounds.  Good starter bocks, especially in the UK due to the price.  They come with knee loops as mentioned above, and the foot bindings are standard plastic ratchets.  Normal weight, really not much to say that hasn't been said already.  Picture here
Flying Locust Pro: They run around 450 USD, unsure of UK price.  I haven't seen them around in a while, as they are very unpopular.  Very similar to the baseline, but they have pivoting footplates and are half a kilogram lighter.  That puts them at 9 lbs or 4kg.  However, they took that weight out of the footplate so it is very narrow and consists of bare metal.  And the plastic ratchets have been replaced with cloth straps.  Information is sparse, but I doubt they hold very well.  The other problem with them is that the axle for the footplate was placed too far back, so you have to hold your toes up all the time.  Definitely not worth the extra money.
Up-Wing/Redoxx: They varied in price from 250 USD in an eBay promo sale to $450, no idea as to their price in the UK.  I cannot think of a better application of the phrase "epic failure" than the Up-Wing.  They were a failure, and they have made a legend out of how bad they were.  A failure that is epic.  They had a radically different frame design that would have made them the greatest running bocks ever if they didn't suck so much.  The diagonal support under the footplate attached directly to the spring, allowing them to get rid of the metal part of the hoof.  The footplate could pivot, although it had the same crappy straps that the FL Pro had.  The footplate could also be locked.  The footplate was adequate, though.  Up-Wings had no support rods, and two tubes replaced the normal single square column.  The upper bindings were cuffs that could slide up and down the two tubes.  They weighed 7.5 pounds or 3.3kg, and their mass was concentrated higher up, which makes running easier due to leverage factors.  However, the footplate was placed wrong so nobody ever used its pivoting function, and the pins that locked it were so prone to breaking that they came with spares.  The cuffs were exceedingly uncomfortable because some idiot decided to put some healthy juju magnets into them, and they pinched.  They could be removed, but under them was the rough side of Velcro.  And that's just the solid back of the cuffs.  The front was made with stretchy fabric that Velcroed in place.  Nobody wants their cuffs to be stretchy, it makes them unstable.  And finally, the killer: they had a tendency to collapse, breaking at the heel or (I think) where the diagonal support attached to the spring.  Would have been wonderful if they didn't suck so much.  Up-Wing picture

POWERSKIP
Brand-wide characteristics
Produced in Germany. These are the originals and the best bocks on the market.  They are also by far the most expensive.  They were invented in 1999 by Alexander Boeck, then patented in 2003.  Their springs are made in occasionally overlapping 20kg ranges.  They are: 460: 55-75kg/ 520:75-95kg/ 580: 85-105kg/ 640: 95-115kg.  They also make 720s on request, which are seriously powerful but prone to breaking.  Other than 720 springs, all Powerskip parts last unusually long.  The frames lasted Swebounce six years.  The springs last years for most people; the Powerskip corporation calculated around 500 hours of heavy use.  The hooves are around 50 hours, longer than Poweriser but not as long as 7leagues.  The hooves are white.  Powerskips are around 7.5lbs or 3.3kg.  Their springs come with very tough clear rubber tubing and does not require taping.  The springs are also top quality: almost unbelievably soft, but still providing at least as much height.  The difference between the top and bottom of the compression is pronounced and they hardly lose any energy at all.  Powerskip springs require smaller bolts to fit onto frames from other brands.  In fact, it is probably best to order their spring brackets with them when buying the springs for another brand frame, because other brands' upper spring brackets will put abnormal stresses on the springs and break them very quickly.  I personally had a pair that broke in two days on Poweriser frames.  All Powerskips come with knee loops, but the foot bindings are unique and vary with the model.  Powerskips are distinguishable by their bindings, white hooves, and pale yellow bare-looking springs.
Baseline Powerskip: They run around 850 euros, 750 pounds, or 1900 USD if bought from www.getjumpingstitls.com (they have gotten overpriced).  The only facet of their design not described above is the foot binding, which consists of a bright yellow plastic over-shoe that is laced up over your shoe.  They are very obvious and distinctive, sometimes referred to as "yellow pixie boots".  Perfect for cheerfully spreading awesomeness all about the land.  They seem like they might be more stable than other binding systems, but there is little comparison.  Picture here
Powerskip Pro: Same price as above in Europe, but getjumpingstilts sells for $2000.  The difference is that they have pivoting footplates, and these ones are done right.  Instead of having anything like a normal binding system, you bolt a pair of well-fitting shoes right onto them, further securing yourself with a single strap near the ankle.  Nothing more to say, Powerskip Pros are arguably the best running bocks.  pictures here Shoe not included.

SKYRUNNER
PRODUCED IN CHINA (Boweii Powerwell corporation).  They are the cheapest bocks around for a reason, running anywhere between 270 to 300 USD.  The company pays no royalties to Alexander Boeck, making them illegal to sell in patent-protected countries (Which does not stop them from trying) and they have quality control issues.  Random breaking welds and straps falling off are unique to Skyrunners, along with frames that start off jiggly and poor machining.  There is a great deal of confusion about them due to their tendency to camouflage themselves as one brand or another.  The newest model seems to have pivoting footplates and they have always had knee loops, but every other feature has changed over time, making identification tricky.  Most of them have colored frames, though.  And no other bocks have them, so if its frames aren't silver or gray, they are Skyrunners.  They are known to be poorly constructed and of generally poor quality.  The old models have spring strength increments identical to Poweriser and 7leagueboots.  Skyrunner springs seem to be unusually soft, but first-hand knowledge is hard to come by.  They have, however, been found extremely unreliably by the Jurassic Jumper team.  They acquired a few pairs of Skyrunners and three of them broke within a week under use from beginners. A .gif with lots of kinds of Skyrunners here
Skyrunner Pro/New & Improved model: The only distinguishable individual version they sell, they run around 390 USD (unsure of European prices) and are claimed to have many improvements over the older models.  They have properly working pivoting footplates, they are at least claimed to weigh only 3.9kg, and they are tougher.  The spring classes go as follows: MB70 for 60-75kg, MB80 for 75-85kg and so on in 10kg increments, with the number marking the middle of the range, up to MB110.  The springs are a slightly darker green than those of Poweriser and the hooves closely resemble those of FL stilts (but do not have replaceable rubber).  The foot bindings are cloth straps similar to those on the FL Pro model, and otherwise they closely resemble 7leagues with their yellow spring covers, glossy finish, and other yellow plastic parts.  Picture here

Velocity Motion Stilts
These are Powerskips that have been modified and resold by Stiltwerks, inc. and features vary.  They come with a set of three heavy-duty Velcro straps for bindings and Poweriser-like cuffs, but other features are widely variable.  They range in price from 2000 to 3000 USD, I don't know about European prices.  They are said to weigh less than original Powerskips, but by how much is up for debate and probably depends on the price tag.  Picture here

The Things to Come section has been moved to the bottom of page two because of the twenty-thousand character limit on a single post.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 07:30:48 PM by Mr Frank » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2008, 07:40:01 AM »

Omfg! That is a wonderful gigantic collection of information!
Wonderful, well done!

/Peter
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Kiola
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2008, 08:56:54 AM »

its good.. but only skims the surface of the information about each Brand of stilts.. As one example..you dont mention all the different Generations that have been out for Flying locust and how they have developed.

If you where to compile EVERYTHING about EVERY model.. EVER then the first post i say would be a good few pages long lol Cheesy
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2008, 10:04:59 AM »

yeah and this isnt actually going to help anyone or stop the "i dont know what springs to buy" posts. Good effort but I dont see a real purpose for it.
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2008, 10:29:58 AM »

well i liked it!!
i'm torn between 7 leagues and poweriSer pro/advanced but i'll prob go powerisers cause i can actually get them in australia rather than ordering from overseas
wen my powerisers springs and hoofs wear out then i'll get 7's hoofs and springs. perfect!! Grin
thanks for this it really helped me even though i didn't need it but it was still helpful
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2008, 10:36:17 AM »

And also, I made one of these almost a year ago...
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2008, 11:51:24 AM »

Good round up Frank, However  just a few points on the Pro-Jump (flying Locust) stilts.

There is a lot of importers for these products and they undergo slight changes all the time as the manufacturer  try to improve the quality of the product. Pro-Jump has documented about  6 versions that we have sold, with a 7th version coming out next month.

They used to be very shoddy and fragile, but they have improved a lot recently.  However, they are still not very tough. 

The original versions which were released in the UK were very high quality, they lasted a long time and the rubber feet were long lasting too, they had brass bushings. There has never been any issues with the frames of any of the versions that have come out of the Chinese factory.

Please can you clarify what you mean by they used to be
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2008, 12:12:27 PM »

nice. this is a good deal of info. will probably help some people in there decisions hopefully.
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2008, 12:45:46 PM »

nice review, well done

some different opinions I have:

Poweriser:
hooves have a bad durability, I wore out so many I can not count them.

7league boots:
they are produced in Asia (like any other brand), they are designed (CAD) in Austira. I personnaly think you get more height on a S-Rex than on a Powerskip, Poweriser.

Flyjumper:
The fibreglass springs are good and soft. The black ones (some said they are carbonfibre but they seem to be not or not any more or never been or ..., we really do not due to so many batches and experiences) are significantly stiffer than the bright fibreglass ones and have a very dynamic (quickly) charakter and good energy explitation. do not go too much over your weight range.

Powerskip:
Thay have deffo the best (an awesome) frame but I personnaly think the springs are not any more the best (and have twice the price).
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masterking09
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2008, 12:50:31 PM »

martin if u dont think skips r the best springs, wat do u think the best springs r.  i am very interested in ur opinion as u seem to have tried every stilt out there
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2008, 01:50:04 PM »

Right, having read through this thoroughly, I agree with all of naz's points.
Also, skyrunner are made in China by boweii powerwell, not "somewhere in the bowels of east asia".

I agree with Martin on the poweriSer hooves durability, the old ones lasted really well but talking to XS and Dominion at CB last weekend, the new ones are less than satisfactory.

Carbon fibre springs are stiffer than the fibreglass ones, not "unusually soft", and are a carbonfibre/fibreglass compound, about 50/50 mix (give or take 10) as far as I remember from deciphering bad english from flyinglocust emails.

Quote
I think it is possible to get non-scuffing hooves, but this has yet to be confirmed.
http://www.jump-to-be.com/index.php?id=146&L=1
It's confirmed on the 7meilenstiefel site

Quote
From what I have heard, they have service-free bearings, but I have never had to service the bearings of any bock I have ever owned anyway.
You should have done, then your bocks wouldn't have been so f***ed and you wouldn't have had to come on here whinging.

Quote
7leagueboots has had some trouble with catastrophic frame failure, but these incidents appear to be in their past, perhaps due to a bad batch of aluminum or something.
The only "catastrophic" one i've seen is Bobman's T-Rex frame imploding. All the others were just bolts shearing and things.

Quote
However, it is known that Flying Locust springs do not last very long.
Evidence please?

A lot of this info is proceeded by "I have heard" or "I think". A lot of your statements have little evidence or information, and are based purely on what you think you know and have come to believe. The upwing and skyrunner sections are so ridiculously biased it sounds like it was written by someone from poweriSer.
I suggest you go back, research everything a lot more, get rid of all the bias sections, and perhaps wait a few more months/years until you have more knowledge and a better understanding of every brand, and by this I mean you have had the opportunity to see each and every one in action and also tried out a multitude of brands.

I suggest you also aim for something more like this, which I aimed to make as informative and unbiased as possible. Also this article is constantly updated as new brands come out and I get the opportunity to try them.
For example I have used poweriSer 2005s, poweriSer 2007s, 7League boots (Raptor, T-Rex and S-Rex type X), Pro-Jumps (2nd Gen, 4th Gen and 6th Gen, and 1st and 2nd Gen Junior Pairs), PoweriZers, and Powerskips. I have also seen in use Pro-Jump 3rd and 5th Gens, Powerskip Pros, SkyRunners, poweriSer 2006 models, 7Leagues S-Rex type R and Pro Energy/Diamond.
http://www.x-bocks.co.uk/index.php?page=17#CAT3
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 01:55:35 PM by Sprog » Logged



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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2008, 02:46:40 PM »

I agree with Sprong, "simply" collecting various personal opinions (quotes) here in the forum without HEAVY personal testing is somewhat weak  Wink. This might create missleading statments of something someone has read from someone who has heard of someone who has heard ...

My experience: I have read so many comments about springs/ frames/ issues here, where I was immediatly able to see that this person either had never tested them or had been a beginner withyout any experience. It is like asking a 14 year old about the driving-character of a Ferrari.  Wink
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2008, 04:25:56 PM »

Well, thanks for the corrections and details, I'll put them in in a minute.  Coulda been more polite about it, though.  I said "I think" and "I have heard" to indicate that the information was not definite but had a small degree of certainty so I don't go around proudly blabbing out falsehood.  I intend on maintaining this post and keeping it updated as well as possible.  Thanks... maybe.
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2008, 04:36:01 PM »

Well, thanks for the corrections and details, I'll put them in in a minute.  Coulda been more polite about it, though.  I said "I think" and "I have heard" to indicate that the information was not definite but had a small degree of certainty so I don't go around proudly blabbing out falsehood.  I intend on maintaining this post and keeping it updated as well as possible.  Thanks... maybe.
Meh. Act towards members on this forum how you would like them to act towards you...

So Jono... You did the editing?

More than half of the video is you.
Amazingly polite, positive and encouraging response.
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2008, 05:33:14 PM »

Damn the hate, full speed ahead.  I have put in most or all of the suggested corrections.  I did kinda see this coming, but Sprog's dislike of me did catch me by surprise.  I was, after all, part of the "quit calling Sprog gay, it's stupid" movement.
Quote
From what I have heard, they have service-free bearings, but I have never had to service the bearings of any bock I have ever owned anyway.
You should have done, then your bocks wouldn't have been so f***ed and you wouldn't have had to come on here whinging.
...Never had bearing trouble...
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fart a lot, or throw potatoes out of your rucksack
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